Thursday, April 30, 2009

Rwanda, Swine Flu & Wolverine

Will be leaving to Germany next Tuesday before proceeding to Rwanda 2 weeks later. Family and friends are concerned with the situation there, Add ImageI’m curious about it too. Time to work again… Colleagues are assuring me of the peaceful and good living environment there, hope it is true. I wonder if I could adapt with this majority French speaking country.

The swine flu has alerted worldwide precaution of this mutated virus, stirring panic in many countries. What’s the cause of this mutation? Was that because of too much chemical substance in the feeds or injections on the pigs that mutating the DNA?

Watched the latest movie “X-Men Origins: Wolverine” yesterday… entertaining… but the fighting scenes are not enough!

Sunday, April 26, 2009

Taiwan – Dan Shui (淡水)


Once important port city in the history for its geographical position. Just a short distance from Taipei, nowadays it is a pleasant weekend escape from the city. Foods are plentiful, and the Fisherman’s Wharf was a pleasant place shouldn’t be missed. The serene long boardwalk along the coast provides good venue for dating. A great place to see the sunset over Taiwan Strait.

Taiwan – Alishan Forest Recreation Area (阿里山)

Another top tourist attraction of Taiwan. The name was so famous and the song about the beautiful Alishan ladies was popular. Thought I would have chance to certify this statement, but I had no time. I stayed only 2 nights and it was raining. Without own transportation it was handicapped to travel to villages nearby.

To many tourists, it was a must to ride the small forest train from JiaYi (嘉义 – altitude 30m) to Alishan village (altitude 2200m). The journey took 3.5hr and passed through 3 climatic zones – tropical, subtropical and temperate. The train was 1 of the 3 most famous mountain trains in the world.

The Alishan village was small and packed with hotels, restaurants and souvenir shops. Starbucks was boasting its highest outlet in Taiwan here.

The common activity was to hiking in the forest. Plenty of centuries old trees around. The ordinary route was too easy and frequented by elder folks. So I tried challenging the TaShan (塔山 – altitude 2610m). Was regretful… I spent 4 hrs hiking on this route, but the thick fog and mist enveloped the whole mountain, not even the silhouette of nearer view could be traced. Worse, I injured my knee cap again, was painful to climb up and down the stairs on the way back.

Taiwan – Ken Ding (垦丁)

One of the favourite tourist spots in Taiwan, visitors come here for swimming, surfing, snorkeling, diving, hiking etc. The beaches around were not exceptionally good and the land rises fairly steep from the sea, but the water is clean. The view from the cliff over the coast was beautiful. The blue sky and the ocean were harmoniously integrated.

Tim brought me to here. We stayed at the small surfers’ hostel, right in front of the surfing beach JiaLeShui (佳乐水). Was good to try understanding surfing culture, but I didn’t pick up any lesson. Possibly having an unpleasant boat capsize experience in the past, have still a little phobia to swim in the sea.

There were plenty of go-kart racing circuits around though the fields were pretty small. It was my first trial, exciting!

The town center was transformed to night market after sunset. It was OK but I preferred the night life atmosphere in Phuket where tourists were throwing beer and music was blaring out loud from speakers.

Saturday, April 25, 2009

Taiwan – Tainan (台南)

Tainan is the oldest and the 4th largest city. Among the places I have travelled in Taiwan, it has the most historical relics and temples, though the size, architecture and history are no way to compare with China.

The famous Matsu Temple was crowded with devotees praying for good luck in health, business, fortune, affair, safety etc… From the size of the crowd, one can tell if the deities had granted their wishes. To me, the concern is that, people would respect and believe in something and thus guiding their own behaviour in order and discipline.

The night market was really enjoying, huge and heavily packed. Local snacks were plentiful. Thank you Tim!

Taiwan – Yang Ming Shan National Park (阳明山)

It is said that the geological forces that frequently shake Taiwan have caused the island to be riddled with hot springs. The major attraction of Yang Ming Shan is the hot-spring baths. We sneaked into the forbidden area at BaYan (八烟) after 5pm. The meeting point of the two hot and cold streams was a perfect place for soaking. The water has a milky colour and mildly sulphurous odour. Though the water temperature of above 40C was slightly too warm, the feeling was real good.

Depends on the season, different types of flower blossom could be seen over the park. Fields of white HaiYu (海芋, Alocasia Rhizome / Giant Taro / Giant Elephant Ear) adorn the fields.

Thursday, April 23, 2009

Taiwan – JiuFen (九份)

Nestled against the mountains, this small village was once center of gold mining during the Japanese occupation. It was abandoned after the mining sources dried up. It was said more than 100km of underground mining tunnels were crisscrossing inside the mountain, unfortunately the authorities did not explore the advantage of it for adventurous tourism sake.

Nowadays the tourists are flocking here for the old teahouses and traditional narrow lanes. The old JiShan Street was packed with plenty of souvenirs and snacks stalls. Plenty of Japanese tourists came here to recall their memory.

Thks to the hospitality of Shelly and A-Ru, they were my guide for these 2 days. This was my best memory in Taiwan.

Taiwan – Taipei (台北)

The moment travelling from the Airport to Taipei City, I realized that my expectation of Taipei was utterly wrong - I meant physically comparing to Hong Kong. The atmosphere was more laid back, not many high rise buildings studded the skyline.

The highlight of Taipei was the National Palace Museum, which housing huge collection (world’s largest and finest) of invaluable Chinese Arts brought from mainland China during the retreat of KMT. Among the focuses are the “jade cabbage” and “jade pork”… they were smaller than I thought.

The iconic Freedom Square (previously known as “Zhong Zheng” Square, the name was changed a couple of years back) was my pick for photographing. The buildings were grand, and the atmosphere was good. The gigantic bronze statue of Taiwan’s first president in the “Chiang Kai Shek Memorial Hall” was sitting high up overlooking the square.

The politeness of the sales promoters in the shopping mall was overwhelming, sounds like the Japanese culture… I had to respond with a courtesy smile each time… eventually I hanged the smile on my face in the whole afternoon.

Who won’t go to see the current world tallest (current record) building “Taipei 101”? I didn’t go up to the observation floor. The lower floors are lined up with world top class boutiques, very spacious. Wonder how much cost they need to spend just to replacing a spot light on the sky high ceiling, or to pump a liter of water to the top floor?

The most famous Shi Lin night market was interesting, is a good place to savour local foods and shopping.

Wednesday, April 22, 2009

Dentist

Hate to see dentist but no choice… have to make routine check up to avoid greater disaster in future… aih… so I went to visit him this morning. After x-ray scanning, he suggested to crown a molar which was amalgam filled long long time ago, it would be getting weak sooner or later… cost me EUR450!

I complained about the front teeth problem happened to me a yr ago… after x-ray… infection was found at the root. He strongly advised to make an operation to solve this problem. Simple, he said, first cut the bone of 2 front teeth, flip both teeth upwards, drill and clean the pus inside the gum, flip down the teeth, stitching… half an hour job… EUR200! He added, pls come tomorrow with full breakfast and lunch, you won’t be able to eat for the next hours!!!

Taiwan – General

Savouring the mouth watering foods was one of my main reasons to here. It was good… plenty of delicious snacks, not similar to the traditional recipes in China, but prepared with new material and new idea. Foods are cheap, EUR1 grants an ordinary meal. The night markets themselves are tourist attractions, fun to get lost in the crowd. The “smelly bean curd” was really terrible to me, dare not to savour this Taiwanese delicacy.

The traffic was congested but not terrible as in Bangkok or Manila. Lots of scooters but the traffic was much better organized compared to Vietnam. Public transportation within city was though convenient, without own transportation it was not easy to move around for sightseeing in the smaller towns. In consideration of Taiwan’s historical, cultural and geographical aspects, I shouldn’t expect great monuments or sceneries as those in China. As friend Shelly advised, I should adjust my expectation accordingly, then only I would enjoy and appreciate Taiwan beauty better. She’s right!

Radio stations were boring, I expected more English channels instead.

Lots of tuition center, reflecting the over concern about education and examination. It must be a huge business. The advertisements of the top students were displayed in large to gain public attentions.

I was told not to discuss politics in the public, just to avoid someone would get mad with personal opinion and sparking off unnecessary disputes.

Sunday, April 05, 2009

Taiwan Trip

Will be leaving to Taiwan tomorrow. In fact this was not on my priority travelling list, was just trying to kill time rather than staying bored at home. 2 weeks… only 2 weeks…

Tuesday, March 24, 2009

The Reader


It began with a story between a boy and a matured lady twice his age… fell in love despite the gap. Michael Berg read her stories before making love, Hanna requested so. She was ashamed of her illiteracy and given up chances to be promoted, she changed jobs and eventually worked as a guard in Nazi camp.

Michael was confused and heartbroken when Hanna disappeared suddenly. It was years later when he, a law student then, attended a war crime trial, Hannah was the defendant. Afraid to disclose her illiteracy, she admitted the war crime and was sentenced life prison… Michael’s tears dropped, but he chose to stay in the dark.

Undecidedly, Michael came to the prison when he was informed she would be discharged soon. The grey haired Hanna was overjoyed to see the “kid”, she grabbed his hand, but Michael responded coldly. Probably she thought their love had vanished and was worrying about the uncertainties in the future, she hanged herself in the prison by stepping on the books, left Michael regretful and sorrow…

A wonderful movie…

p/s: my opinion... It was Hanna’s initiation to seduce Michael. She said she wouldn’t look at Michael’s naked body but she was staring. And she stripped herself off for Michael. He was the victim.

Sunday, March 22, 2009

Photos - Australia

The photos of my recent trip to Australia are now available in my Travelogue.

Australia – Canberra

I had only allocated 2 days in Canberra. The weather was pretty sunshine but windy and chilly.

After checking in at hostel, I rushed to the National Gallery of Australia immediately. Just on time to join the free informative guided tour. The collections were broad and great, she explained how to appreciate the beauty of different types of art pieces - the impressionist paintings of Monet, abstract painting of Picaso, indigenous arts, modern arts, sculptures… too bad photographing is not allowed.



The next day, I spent most of my time in the National Museum of Australia. The building itself is a beautiful art piece. The design is complex and colourful. The museum has integrated high tech and entertaining elements to present the history and exhibits. It was an enjoyable venue.

Obviously Canberra has been neglected by many tourists, but both museum and gallery mentioned above are worth for a visit.



The Aboriginal Tent Embassy was “camped” in front of the Old Parliament House, established on Australia Day, 26-Jan-1972, as a protest against the denial of land rights and self determination of the aborigines. It tends to remind the world that Australia still has much to do in regard to reconciliation, land rights and fair treatment of its indigenous people.

Australia – Wollongong & Kiama



Wollongong, had only been to the Nan Tien Temple, said to be the largest Buddhist Temple in the south hemisphere. It’s new and can’t compare with the great historical temples in China. The decorations and workmanships are modern.



Kiama, is famous for it’s blow hole. The view from the cliff (not so high) to the ocean is beautiful.

Friday, March 20, 2009

Australia - Tasmania

I teamed up with Farzad to rent a car in Tasmania, it saved lots of time to travel on this island. It was almost fully booked at the airport, we were lucky to have our small Hyundai at last. Should have booked a car online earlier, would be cheaper.

The Port Arthur, a prison to keep 12500 convicts from England and Ireland between 1830 – 1877, has most of the buildings restored. Clean and tidy, hardly traced any physical remnant or somber haunting atmosphere of once brutal prison. The guide said it was purposely set up this way in order not to trigger sad memories of some people. My opinion was contrary, the prison should present the feel of originally served function so to understand the situation as it was, like The Killing Field and WWII prisons do.



Hobart, the largest city in Tasmania, was not really attractive, the Salamanca Place and Battery Point were OK… the waterfront Victoria Dock was the most scenic part particularly during sunset and sunrise. I watched a local Play at Salamanca Place… just so-so.



Visiting National Parks seem to be the main reason of most tourists, especially to the nature lovers.
- The Wineglass Bay at Freycinet NP (pronounced Fray-sin-ay) was beautiful, but not accessible by car. The 1.5hr trekking to this beach would be too long for our schedule. Instead we only walked up to the higher ground to have an overview.
- The trekking around Dove Lake at Cradle Mt. NP (World Heritage) was unforgettable, not because of the scenery. The guide said 300 days out of a year are rainy in this NP. We didn’t have better luck. We were soaked in the shower for 2 hrs and my camera was doused (damaged). We didn’t trek to the Cradle Mt. as the climate was too misty and foggy.
- On the 4th day, we visited Lake St.Claire NP (Australia’s deepest natural freshwater lake, 167m), was no longer exciting.

Frankly our trekking in these NPs was very superficial. We only walked and snapped photos, but didn’t pay much attention on the fauna and flora species. My opinion, the trekking in Malaysia’s Taman Negara is more exciting.

We drove about 1500km within 4 days. The sceneries from the coast to the farms and rainforests were truly relaxing. We spent a night respectively at Delorine and Strahan (pronounced Strawn), not worth to make a note here.

Australia – Melbourne

My original plan to travel by train from Ayers Rock (Alice Springs) to Adelaide was changed due to the unmatched train schedule. I flew to Melbourne instead.

Melbourne is smaller, quieter than Sydney. The coastal water is colder, uncomfortable for swimming. The 2 National Gallery of Victoria (NGV) are good. The Immigration Museum is interesting but the ACMI is a little bit bored. Crown Casino - the largest in the south hemisphere is located here.



There are many fauna conservation parks around Australia, displaying unique animals only found on this continental, like wallaby (the smaller type of kangaroo), kangaroo, wombat, koala, dingo and Tasmanian devil. Admission fee is not cheap. Kangaroo feeding cheered up the tourists gladly.



A trip to Phillip Island is recommended, though it’s a boring 3 hr drive (one-way) from Melbourne. The beaches are good but the wind was too chilly and strong. The extreme southwestern tip of the island is the Nobbies, sceneries are unbeatable. Seal Rocks is a short distance offshore, inhabited by Australia’s largest colony of fur seals. Through the telescope thousands of seals were seen scattered on the rocks, but too far for a detail look. The tour guide said boat trip is possible to get close to the seals but tourists are not allowed to get on the Rocks.

The Penguin Parade was the highlight of the trip, was to see the world’s smallest penguin drifted ashore after sunset waddling from the sea to their land based nests. No photographing was permitted, said not to frighten the cuties. Tourists were sitting on the benches in front of the beach, exclaimed excitingly when the penguins appeared. Interestingly, when the 1st penguin was drifted ashore, it would stand facing the beach, waited till rest of the penguins gathered and queuing up in discipline before marching to their nests like an army troop.

Thursday, March 19, 2009

Australia – Ayers Rock (Uluru)

Amazed what a manmade wonder was done on this barren desert. Various range of hotels are constructed in Yulara Resort, basic facilities are well established. Post office, bank, supermarket, restaurants and free shuttle buses are available, water supply is clean and power supply is stable.



The scorching heat is quite uncomfortable. We were welcomed by millions of flies since landing at the airport. It was disturbing and irritating. The China made head covering “fly net” was the most popular “souvenir”, costs AUD10!

The aerial view from the plane shows an immense arid flat area in the central Australia. The Ayers Rock (Uluru), the world’s largest piece of rock, emerged oddly and its ochre red is eyes catching. Acc’ to Lonely Planet, it’s believed that 2/3 of the rock is beneath the sand.



The main attraction Uluru is a holy place to the aboriginals. Tourists are advised not to remove any rock or sand in this area. The tour guide said lots of tourists sent back their “stolen souvenir” when they deemed being cursed as rumours go.

I joined the 10km Uluru base walk the next morning, circumnavigating the rocks. The guide narrated the mystic stories about Kuniya (a woma python) and Liru (a poisonous snake), the conflicts between tribes. Of course, legends were always exaggerated. We were advised not to photograph any holy places, I didn’t know if camera could capture spirits. In order to compromise the income of community and the curiosity of some tourists, the climb to the holy Uluru is allowed, though discouraged by the Anangu people, the Aboriginal traditional owners of Uluru. Some indigenous paintings could still be seen in the caves.

Adjacent was Kata Tjuta (means many heads), another few pieces of rocks emerged from the plain desert. Not really special indeed.

During my short stay in this outback, I didn’t see any 1.8m tall, weight 80kg kangaroo.

Australia - Cairns



This is a typical tourist town… pretty small. Surprisingly there is no beach in this town, the shore was a swampy muddy area. Better beaches could be found out of town.

I came here solely for the sake of diving in the renowned Great Barrier Reef, as most tourists did. My high expectation turned out disappointing. Large area of corals of the 3 dive spots were dead, the grayish and whitish underwater world was really ordinary. Probably the influx of scuba divers to the same area had ruined the eco-system. The global warming was blamed. The plus: we saw a couple of sharks and feeding turtle underwater.

This was the only place I had seen a small crowd of aborigines. Sorry to say… no hard feeling… their body hygiene should be slightly better taken care of.

I planned to visit the Tjapukai Cultural Center (indigenous culture and show biz), but the center was closed for special occasion… no luck… worse, I lost my favourite Adidas cap in the art gallery later.



We bought kangaroo steaks for dinner. Friends were reluctant to savour this Aussie specialty. The meat was OK… later I learned from a tour guide that a kind of parasite could be found in kangaroo meat, it should be well cooked.

Australia - Sydney

I was advised of possibly facing “interrogation” by the immigration officer upon arrival due to the strict immigration policy and control. Well I went through the procedure without hassle, though I was a little annoyed when she instructed me to go for baggage checking. Why the Caucasians queuing in front of me were exempted? … eventually my baggage was left uninspected.

I didn’t expect seeing so many Asians in Sydney. The Asian foods are authentic and delicious, more variety than in Malaysia.



I like Sydney though it’s lacking of great monument or centuries old historical buildings. Like the cozy atmosphere, like the views of both Sydney and Darling harbours, the breezy white-sand Bondi Beach, and I spent quite some time simmering in the art galleries and museums. The aquarium was not bad, was excited to get inch close to the sharks (of course separated by a glass shield). The section named “Great Barrier Reef” with colourful corals and fishes displayed affirming my decision to visit this world’s largest coral reefs next.



Coincidently the yearly Mardi Gras was held in Sydney on 07-Mar-09. It was a great street show, was fun to see the performers (majority gay and lesbian people) dressing flamboyantly and enjoying themselves. Friends said the parade is dwindling in size and less entertaining due to budget reduction.

Thanks to JK (ex-schoolmate), RC (friend) and Kuan (cousin), they were my guide in Sydney. Ha… was interesting.

Australia - General

After the 5 weeks journey in Australia, I start loving this country better. I told my friends, if I had any plan to migrate, this country would be my first choice (for now). The good infrastructure, government’s commitment to the public, relative low population, safe living environment, good civic consciousness etc impressed me. Occasionally I heard of racism comments against immigrants from Asian countries, mainly on employment subject, but this “sensitive” issue is not discussed openly. The living expenses are almost at a par with European standard.



The magnificent sceneries along the coastal lines and the good collections in the art galleries are my picks.



In Sydney I was advised to stay away from the area where the aborigines gathered for safety sake. Plenty of negative comments were put on these aborigines. The first glance on the indigenous arts was crude and dull, but the 2nd look changed my opinion. It’s unique indeed. Respective tribe has his own painting style and craftsmanship. Some of the paintings were really creative and finely drawn.

Wednesday, February 18, 2009

Australia - Bits and Pieces

Have been 2 weeks travelling in Aussie. Well, generally it's fun. Following are some of my opinions on this country.
- Aussie slang is difficult to catch sometimes... especially on the phone. They speak fast and used to cut short the pronunciation.
- The atmosphere is quiet here.., even in Sydney and Melbourne. Relax...
- I was told without working experience in Aussie, it would be difficult to find a job. Being a universal rule, connection sometimes does play vital role.
- Unlike most of the Asian countries, the ordinary family couldn't afford to have a house maid. In this respect, our life at home is lazier.
- When I arrived at Sydney, the weather hit record high 43C. The next day, it dropped to 24C. The diff was too big and too fast!
- The recent bush fire case in Victoria has claimed more than 130 lives. Just thinking aloud, could this be an terrorist act?
- There was a shark attack case reported at Sydney harbour. A diver was mauled in the early morning. A few days later, a surfer was attacked at Bondi Beach in Sydney. I was cautious while having my diving trip on 13-Feb in Cairns. Well.. I saw one (longer than 1.2m), but the shark was shy away.
Well... that's all for now... short of credit for internet surfing.

Wednesday, February 04, 2009

Leaving to Australia

Leaving tonight to Australia... have no detail planning where to visit in this huge country. Will decide on arrival. The Great Barrier Reef diving is a must!

Monday, February 02, 2009

Gathering

Have attended the annual ex-coursemates New Year gathering this afternoon. Less than half of us were present. Was really glad to meet again, most of them brought along their spouse and kids… I was the odd case. A few of the ladies even have no sign of aging…

The venue was held at one of the coursemates place. Wow… her house was GRAND. The atmosphere was good. Everyone seemed to be content with their life, happy for them.

We should start planning the upcoming 20 years friendship anniversary gathering in July. Hope all of us could attend the same.

Sunday, January 25, 2009

财源 vs. 裁员

Retrenchment seems to be the most used headlines on the newspaper financial page these days. Almost every big company has announced slimming program coupled with organization restructuring. Banks announce record loss, mega projects have been called for a halt or deferment, national economy shrinking, unemployment soaring, salary freezing, compulsory no pay leave… We should cherish to have a secured job these days… well, I’m looking for one.

I reckon this year economy would be worse. The 2nd wave of financial crisis is surfacing, the developing countries would be harder hit this time. Under the term of globalization, no one would be spared from this crisis.

Lots of peoples are hoping Mr.Obama, the new president of the USA, would salvage this global dilemma. Hope is just a hope, I’m pessimistic. The present problems can’t be solved by himself or by the USA alone. Otherwise the worldwide share market wouldn’t tumble 4% on his inauguration. When his strategy doesn’t bring instant positive results, lots of his supports will turnabout and become the voices of critics.

I wish this year of BULL would bring prosperity back to the world.

Photos Uploaded - China

Photos of the recent China trip are available in my Travelogue now.

Friday, January 23, 2009

新年快乐 Happy New Year

听了许多年传统的新年歌,多都是围绕着“财”字,哪股铜臭气太俗了,也腻了。藉以下这两首新创作,祝大家身体健康,新年快乐,万事如意。



Wednesday, January 21, 2009

ShenZhen (09-Jan-09 till 11-Jan-09) – Friends




To ShenZhen was to meet friends. Teddy, met him 3.5 yrs ago in XinJiang, China. He is one of the handful met on the road who still keep in contact. Lani, I knew her in Sudan. She is working with her British husband here. I’m really happy for her marriage.

The hostel is situated quite far away from the city center. Had thought to shifting out the night of my arrival. Luckily I didn’t. The hostel itself was a converted loft. Nearby there are many more used factories converted artistically mainly to design related businesses. It’s a lovely place.

I spent a few hours in the shopping district DongMen. The crowd was so dense that people were almost elbowing each other. Went to a shopping mall frequented by the locals. The space was so packed and narrow, I think it has seriously violated emergency evacuation regulations. Most of the items seen were imitated products… cost a fraction of the original if you could bargain hard. I bought a jumper… for EUR8!... Lani said it could be cheaper…

Want to thank Chuan Dong for his kind companion to show me around ShenZhen. He is voluble, knowledgeable and promising. I bet he will be successful in his career.

FoShan (08-Jan-09) – YeWen & HuangFeiHong




Again, unexpected turned out to be quite fun.

The highlight of FoShan is the ZuMiao (Ancestor Temple). It was not to my knowledge that the exhibition halls of YeWen (martial arts teacher of actor Bruce Lee) and HuangFeiHong were situated inside the compound too. The movie stories had exaggerated their heroic background. In fact they were just ordinary people.

The main structure of ZuMiao is frequented by devotees, quite different to the other temples. In general, FoShan is worth for a day trip from GuangZhou.

Tuesday, January 20, 2009

GuangZhou (07-Jan-09) – Defensive




I had to be here in GuangZhou to catch my flight back home. I didn’t expect much from this city, but somehow I had some fun here. By speaking the local dialect (Cantonese), basically no one suspected I’m a foreigner… I liked this trick.

The QinPing market was full of traditional herbs dealer. Crisscrossing the alleys, discovering some funny and exotic things, and observing local life. Adjacent to it, the wet market was busy with fresh seafood trading, ranging from huge lobsters, shells, frogs, turtles, snakes, crocodiles to the tiny scorpions. Wondering what else we couldn’t eat?

I spent a morning to the temples, seeing the devotees praying to the Buddha and deities. I prayed for my family and friends, hoped they will be blessed.

Something was strange in GuangZhou. It happened 2 times that we (with another backpacker) were asking someone for direction, they retreated instantly a couple of steps backwards trying to avoid us. Did we look like bad guys or something abnormal? One man even refused to hold our camera to take photo for us. I didn’t know what had happened before making people so defensive and cautious to each other.